October 1, 2014

"Milwaukee's long-running school voucher program... has saved Wisconsin more than $238 million since its inception in 1990..."

The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reports on a new study, which it says is not surprising, since the voucher students get to go to private school is less than is paid to cover their public school education. (Vouchers are less than $8,000 per student, while public school is about $10,000 per student in Milwaukee.)
The [Friedman Foundation for Educational Choice] that conducted the study operates in the spirit of economist Milton Friedman, a 20th century free-market advocate who believed allowing public dollars to follow the child would expand personal freedom, improve achievement and save money.
The $238 million number predates a recent expansion of the voucher program. The question of further expansion of the program is a current issue in the Wisconsin gubernatorial election, something the linked article doesn't mention. The 2 candidates take opposite positions here, as you can see in this Sept. 3rd Journal Sentinel article. The Democratic candidate, Mary Burke — who is a member of the Madison school board — opposes expanding the voucher program (though she says she won't eliminate the programs in Milwaukee and Racine). The Republican candidate, the incumbent Scott Walker, is enthusiastic about vouchers.
On a morning visit to a high-profile Milwaukee private school, Walker said he supports significantly increasing participation in the 2-year-old statewide voucher program, particularly for low-income students and potentially for students from higher-income families....

Burke picked up the gauntlet Wednesday afternoon, repeating her pledge to reduce the number of vouchers offered by the state for students to attend private, mostly religious schools by eliminating the statewide program entirely.

"This just seems to me like a career politician 60 days before an election is throwing out ideas with no plan for how they're going to be funded," Burke said in a phone interview with reporters. "What we saw from the statewide program is something like 75% of the children enrolled were never enrolled in public schools. I respect that decision, but I also don't think it should be taxpayer subsidized. I wouldn't have the program at all."
Burke is denying that there's a tax savings, because most of the students who get vouchers would have gone to private school anyway.


The September 3rd article shows how much money goes into this issue, to both candidates, with the teachers union spending heavily for Burke and pro-voucher groups going for Walker. There's also a lot of spending on the legislative races, because the expansion of the program depends on the legislature remaining in the Republicans' control

148 comments:

RecChief said...

know what else the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reports?

That at a Burke Campaign event, reporters were not allowed to interview anyone in the crowd.

Soviet style press management

Michael K said...

The piece about the reporter control at a Burke rally was surprising coming from that source. Does this indicate a tipping point ?

RecChief said...

More hypocrisy from the Left. If vouchers are bad, why leave them alone in Racine and Milwaukee?

Birkel said...

No, no, no. A thousand times no.

I have been assured by "garage mahal" that vouchers cost taxpayers more money. Therefore, it must. Because shut up.

Also, neener neener.

Anonymous said...

Althouse, you say..." The Democratic candidate, Mary Burke — who is a member of the Madison school board — expanding the voucher program (though she says she won't eliminate the programs in Milwaukee and Racine)"

Doesn't the Sep 3 article clearly say the opposite?

Burke picked up the gauntlet Wednesday afternoon, repeating her pledge to reduce the number of vouchers offered by the state for students to attend private, mostly religious schools by eliminating the statewide program entirely.

What about the Irony that Burke was for vouchers before she was against them?

RecChief said...

"Michael K said...
The piece about the reporter control at a Burke rally was surprising coming from that source. Does this indicate a tipping point ?"


Considering that vouchers are presented as saving money without any data after expansion of the program that isn't mentioned, that is to paraphrase, "vouchers save money" and Burke seems to be generally an opponent of vouchers, maybe so.

traditionalguy said...

Walker is being mean to a woman! Burke cannot find her vouchers plan until someone else writes and publishes one.

Wince said...

Insert "is against"?

The Democratic candidate, Mary Burke — who is a member of the Madison school board — expanding the voucher program (though she says she won't eliminate the programs in Milwaukee and Racine).

MadisonMan said...

Does less cost mean better education? That is the true bottom line. The Article doesn't discuss it. (I wonder if it could even be determined).

From the Article:

Author Jeff Spalding, the director of fiscal policy and analysis at the foundation, said he lacks the data to track exactly where those savings went in each state, but said it's just common sense that government savings from vouchers would naturally flow into other public purposes, such as schools, roads, law enforcement or health care.

As if Common Sense ever ruled what the Government does.

The Crack Emcee said...

Money, money, money:

Will whites EVER be concerned about anything else?

You know, like JUSTICE?

They got into slavery for money, and that outlook has stained them, as human beings, ever since.

Money turns the skin white, I suspect,..

Anonymous said...

Michael K wrote;

"The piece about the reporter control at a Burke rally was surprising coming from that source. Does this indicate a tipping point ?"

It's a lot like Dark Money in politics.

Democrats can control the media, because they do so in a way that is good for everyone. They have good intentions.

It's only Republicans that need a free press. Because Republicans are bad people.

Anonymous said...

An educated under-class has no benefits for the Democrat party.

Birkel said...

EDH:

I think you forgot to insert "is lying" somewhere in the description of Burke's position.

It's an easy oversight.

Anonymous said...

An educated under-class offers no benefit to the Democrat party.

TreeJoe said...

Burke says voucher's shouldn't be taxpayer subsidized. Isn't that an ironic statement - possibly even oxymoronic?

I mean, the taxpayer in questions pays school taxes for a school their child doesn't go to or doesn't want to go to, but that's an ok taxpayer subsidization.

But allowing ~80% of those taxpayer funds to be self-directed when the taxpayer has a school age child to a non-state-mandated school is....not an ok taxpayer subsidization?

This sounds like someone else's line was incorrectly copy and pasted into her talking points.

Michael K said...

Well, guess who's back!

"Money turns the skin white, I suspect,.."

Did your EBT card get lost in the mail ?

Beta Rube said...

I don't think the Milwaukee voucher movement was motivated by a desire to save money. It was designed to give a choice to inner city parents whose kids were trapped in a failing educational monopoly.

Two of the main early proponents were Polly Williams and Howard Fuller, both African Americans.

n.n said...

I would prefer that they fix the problems, at school, in the community, and at home; but, it is undeniable that competition promotes progress, often positive.

It's unfortunate that people's obsession with money, degenerate religions, efforts to compensate for deficits, efforts to compensate for displacement, and lack of integrity have served to preserve the status quo.

Bobber Fleck said...

I've concluded that Crack Emcee is secretly a white liberal who enjoys pretending to be black while pimping other whites. No other possible explanation makes sense.

Hagar said...

The savings enabled the public schools to hire more administrators as well as to put Astroturf on their football fields.

Henry said...

"What we saw from the statewide program is something like 75% of the children enrolled were never enrolled in public schools."

That's a pretty good racket, there. The worse you make the public schools, the more parents send their kids to private. Property taxes go further and class sizes go down.

Improve the public schools and you might have some real problems.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Money turns the skin white, I suspect,..
Holy shit can this foolish person lob softballs in there, or what?!

Julie C said...

Crack - correct me if I'm wrong, but you've talked in the past about wanting reparations. Isn't that money, too?

I am asking a sincere question by the way.

BarrySanders20 said...

In CrackWorld, only whites engaged in human slavery, and all whites, but only whites, are stained by that forevermore.

Until reparations.

$8,000 per aggrieved person per year, same as the voucher kids?

TreeJoe said...

Crack,

Somalia and Sudan have more blacks than the entire U.S. African American population.

They subsist on far less, face constant strife, live far shorter lives, struggle with disease and hunger, and constant regional violence between different groups with the same skin color.

As far as I've ever seen, you've never mentioned those blacks or any similar African national strife. You don't ask for justice for those blacks from the hands and pockets of other blacks within their countries.

As far as I can tell, you are not a champion of black-skinned people.

What is it you stand for, exactly?

Brando said...

Just getting the support of the teacher's unions to me is a disqualification for any candidate on the topic of education. It is virtually impossible to implement any type of reform as long as you need the unions' buy-in.

It's possible that someone gets the unions' endorsement and then backstabs them (in a "only Nixon could go to China" sort of way) but short of that, they're just going to get more roadblocks into office to prevent doing anything to modernize our education system to make it more competitive with the rest of the world.

donald said...

Tell it to JZ cocksucker.

donald said...

And Michael Jordan.

donald said...

Clint Covington.

donald said...

Anybody with a job or entrepreneurial spirit cum bucket.

exhelodrvr1 said...

SO, better education for the students, and cheaper for the state. As expected, the Democrats won't like that.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

The Crack Emcee said...

Money turns the skin white, I suspect,..

I always wondered what happened to Micheal Jackson...

Original Mike said...

"Burke is denying that there's a tax savings, because most of the students who get vouchers would have gone to private school anyway."

But the number who would have gone to public schools is greater than zero, so there is a savings. Simple math (which, apparently, Mary Burke is incapable of performing).

Brando said...

"Crack - correct me if I'm wrong, but you've talked in the past about wanting reparations. Isn't that money, too?"

I take Crack's comment to mean that when they do finally start handing out reparations, he's willing to take his in the form of a sincere apology from any still living slaveholders.

RecChief said...

"Money turns the skin white, I suspect,.."

I find it interesting that our hostess lets this stand, yet deletes certain other people even when they make a valid point.

My suspicion is that it is Meade, doing his part to garner clicks, drive activity, etc.

MadisonMan said...

Just getting the support of the teacher's unions to me is a disqualification for any candidate on the topic of education

Agreed. I don't know when, in Madison, a person was last elected to the School Board without the backing of the Teachers' Union.

SO, better education for the students, and cheaper for the state.

Cheaper, yes. But where are the metrics that the Education is better? The reporter is not telling the whole story (which should surprise no one).

Humperdink said...

After an ever so brief sabbatical, CE is back.

Thread: see ditch.

RecChief said...

Simple math (which, apparently, Mary Burke is incapable of performing)."

BUt..But...Serious, You Guys! She went to Harvard Business School!!!

donald said...

She's got a Harvard degree.

They don't grade. Knowledge is not important.

furious_a said...

Money, money, money:

Will whites EVER be concerned about anything else?


...sez the sleazy race hustler always pimping for his big payday.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

By the way, $10k/student/year? I can't wait to hear about how we've gutted eductation spending, are paying too much for bombs and not enough for books, etc. Imagine what any school system in this nation could have done with $10k/student at any time between 1900-1980!
Learning to expect incompetence and waste from government enterprises takes time but I'm getting there. Can't anybody here play this game?!

Seeing Red said...

And Sandy Hook wants to demonize home schooling. Much like Germany.

Seeing Red said...

Hagar, they might not have had a choice about the AstroTurf. That might have come from the EPA for all we know. It happened at my high schools, almost $4 mil to replace them with turf. Which causes more injuries, doesn't it?

But didn't Milwaukee rush thru teacher contracts before Act 10?

Hagar said...

Henry above may be on to something.
Cancel the voucher programs and make the public schools truly awful, so that the parents send all those pesky kids to private schools, and the unions and the administrators could even get rid of the teachers too and have the schools all to themselves!

Todd said...

MadisonMan said...
Does less cost mean better education? That is the true bottom line. The Article doesn't discuss it. (I wonder if it could even be determined).
10/1/14, 11:08 AM


That is relevant but less so when you are in the voucher program since if your child is not getting the education you think they should be, you can move them. This freedom of choice is as important as the monetary value of the vouchers. It allows parents to move their kids out of failing schools. They could choose another public school or a private school.

In this case, the private schools are not only the choice from an education perspective but also $2K cheaper than the public option.

As the parents choose to send their kids there, you may can assume the education is better otherwise why would the parents move their kids to the private school instead of an alternate public school?

Seeing Red said...

We spend almost a trillion or more a year and they're still dumber than a box of rocks.

State and federal, plus the other federal programs which support it. Remember when jumpin Jim Jeffords wanted $150-180 bill for special ed?

MadisonMan said...

By the way, $10k/student/year?

In large part because of mainstreaming children with significant physical or mental challenges.

The Special Ed department (not called that, I don't think, anymore, but that's what it would've been called in the 70s) at my kids' High School has 50+ members. There are about 10 math teachers, in comparison. This for a school of 2000, grade 9-12.

I'm not sure if all those people are full-timers, but I suspect most of them are.

In the past, Private Schools have not had to deal with that kind of student. I'm not sure if they are still legally able to evade them. (I will say that the Private School closest to my house, a Catholic School, is so well-known *not* working with challenging students that they very often bail for the good Public Schools).

Ann Althouse said...

"Althouse, you say..." The Democratic candidate, Mary Burke — who is a member of the Madison school board — expanding the voucher program (though she says she won't eliminate the programs in Milwaukee and Racine)" Doesn't the Sep 3 article clearly say the opposite?"

Oh! I accidentally lost the word "opposes" before "expanding" in the edit. Thanks for pointing to that. Fixed.

I had originally written that she "opposes continuing or expanding the voucher program," but then further down, I saw that she'd keep what's already there in Milwaukee and Racine, so I meant to take out "continuing."

I wonder what's going on there. I assume she doesn't want any state spending to go to private schools, but is accepting what people have become accustomed to and only wants (or will say she wants) to prevent any more people to become attached to the money that supports private school choice.

Ann Althouse said...

"Will whites EVER be concerned about anything else?
You know, like JUSTICE?"

Much of this is about minority students. That's the idea in Milwaukee. Even the linked article makes that clear.

The question isn't whether "whites" are concerned about racial justice, but whether you're concerned about even briefly checking to see if they are.

Ann Althouse said...

Do you think the black children in Milwaukee are better off in public school or private school? Some of those private schools have been pretty successful with underprivileged minority students, and the parents have the choice, which can leverage the public schools to do better.

Why not look into the details, if it's not too much trouble?

Gahrie said...

Will whites EVER be concerned about anything else?

Say the person obsessed with reparations.

I'm starting to believe that Crack is not disturbed, he's "performance art".

Beorn said...

Why not look into the details, if it's not too much trouble?

Because in Crack's world everything boils down to RACISM™, details and facts be damned.

Chump don't want the help, chump don't get the help. Jive ass dude ain't got no brains anyhow.
-Barbara Billingsley

The Crack Emcee said...

Ann Althouse,

"Do you think the black children in Milwaukee are better off in public school or private school?"

The only reason public schools suck is racism - who do you think put them (and the kids who attend them) in ghettos?

Whites will try anything but fixing THAT - because it means fixing themselves - when we all know they were raised to think they're perfect people who never hurt anyone, ever.

"Some of those private schools have been pretty successful with underprivileged minority students, and the parents have the choice, which can leverage the public schools to do better."

Gee, imagine if whites weren't racist, and all we had were "schools" - where would America be now?

"Why not look into the details, if it's not too much trouble?"

I do look into the details - of history.

For some reason whites find that too much trouble, and still prefer this public/private fiasco as a cover.

It's white racism, people, nothing more.

Pick the subject - it's still white racism - until YOU decide to deal,....

The Crack Emcee said...

Michael K,

"Did your EBT card get lost in the mail ?"

Same joke another racist made yesterday:

Do white racists travel in packs, trading racist barbs like trading cards?

It's definitely not like any of you think for yourselves,...

Hagar said...

They are handing out "reparations," and have been for some time.
The last I saw was that the cost of Pigford II is now estimated at $4.5 billion and still rising.

Curious George said...

"The Crack Emcee said...
Money, money, money:

Will whites EVER be concerned about anything else?"

LOL

The Crack Emcee said...

Michael K ,

"Well, guess who's back!"

You guys crack me UP:

If I'm not here, you wonder where I am.

If I am here, you complain I dominate and demand Ann get rid of me.

Blacks just can't win with racists,...

The Crack Emcee said...

Bobber Fleck,

"I've concluded that Crack Emcee is secretly a white liberal who enjoys pretending to be black while pimping other whites. No other possible explanation makes sense."

After centuries of slavery, lynchings, and plunder, I think anything that "makes sense" is beyond white's comprehension.

Justice definitely is a problem for them.

But then, they have no practice in it,...

The Crack Emcee said...

Julie C,

"Crack - correct me if I'm wrong, but you've talked in the past about wanting reparations. Isn't that money, too?

I am asking a sincere question by the way."

No, that's wanting money BACK.

Not the sick worship of it to the point of attempting to wipe others off the planet,...

Curious George said...

"The Crack Emcee said...
Money, money, money:

Will whites EVER be concerned about anything else?"

No kidding. Here some here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I79wUEqBdQc

The Crack Emcee said...

BarrySanders20,

"In CrackWorld, only whites engaged in human slavery, and all whites, but only whites, are stained by that forevermore."

My GOD, you guys are dense:

White Americans said "All Men Are Created Equal" and not only were the slave holders lying when they wrote it, but continued to do so until we freed ourselves over a century later - finally making those words mean something without white people.

Why do racists miss this in their futile attempts to - what else? - try to denigrate blacks?

You know nothing but how to be racist. That's your culture. You must attack anyone who mentions it. You can't help yourselves.

You want to be seen as non-racist AS YOU ATTACK BLACKS!

And then your punk-asses wonder why it's not working,...

The Crack Emcee said...

TreeJoe,

"As far as I've ever seen, you've never mentioned those blacks or any similar African national strife. You don't ask for justice for those blacks from the hands and pockets of other blacks within their countries."

Am I African? Then why do racist whites bring Africa up?

You're racists desperately searching for a way out of your depravity.

I ain't the one,...

Hagar said...

The most interesting thing I have seen was in Zaandam, the Netherlands a long time ago.
A Calvinist and a Catholic congregation had gone together about building a school, since neither could get - or afford - what it wanted by itself.. It was divided down the middle along the ridgeline and mirror-imaged so that each half was exactly alike. There were no doors between the halves, except down in the basement for the janitor, and there were separate playgrounds to either side of the building, so that there would not be any cross-contamination.
The classrooms were very simple, but light and airy and attractive places to work.

I did not ask if they graded on a curve, since at that time I did not know such a thing existed myself, but I am quite sure they did not, in either half of the building.

Anonymous said...

The Crack Racist wrote:

"No, that's wanting money BACK."

That's all us whites want too. Our money back. The difference is, you've only got a few centuries of interest to collect on, we've got millennium.

See? We all want our money BACK.

Give me my money BACK!

See how less greedy that is?

The Crack Emcee said...

RecChief,

"I find it interesting that our hostess lets this stand, yet deletes certain other people even when they make a valid point."

I think, since I'm outnumbered in these sorts of comments - 6 to 1 - but the fact you guys ONLY FOCUS ON MINE, might have something to do with it.

6 to 1 - and you fools think ity's a fair fight and only I should be punished.

White racists with tunnel vision are pretty easy to spot.

Long history, though I know y'all don't know anything about that,...

Brando said...

"The only reason public schools suck is racism - who do you think put them (and the kids who attend them) in ghettos?"

There is way too much wrong to fit into one sentence. Kudos on your efficiency! Lesser minds would have required several paragraphs to say so much wrong.

First, a slum isn't necessarily a "ghetto" unless a racial, ethnic or religious group is actually forced by law to live there. This country used to have ghettos, now it just has slums. If you're aware of anyone who is being legally forced to live in a certain neighborhood (besides registered sex offenders) then you may want to help them take this to court.

Second, racism is the reason for our lousy schools? Poor white kids in Appalachia might be happy to hear that they can blame their own lousy schools on racism. It must be racism against those of Scotch Irish extraction.

Third, considering the fact that our worst performing public schools tend to spend more per pupil that many better-performing schools in other countries--in some cases developing countries--makes your claim reach a level of bogus that could get you a job on MSNBC. You should consider applying there! To your credit you at least have the experience of encountering differing opinions, even if you can't respond properly to them. It's still something.

The failings of our public schools are based on a number of factors, and the schools could benefit a great deal from reforms. A number of alternative school models--including charter schools, KIPP schools, and even less elite private schools--have demonstrated that even poor kids (minorities and whites) can flourish under different educational conditions. Anyone who actually cares about this issue (for whites, blacks, and every other race) would take an interest in the sort of experimentation that can produce results in terms of better educated and prepared kids.

To write it all off as "white racism" is a great way to excuse all these failings and never do anything about it like supporting alternatives. It helps entrench you as a part of the problem.

Perhaps I'm misjudging you and you have been a supporter of educational innovation--but your comment does not suggest that.

jimbino said...

Now what we need is a voucher that would encourage our minorities, including Blacks, Hispanics and Native Amerikans to visit the fabulous national parks and forests of this land, all of which are now mere white country clubs mostly visited by white retirees, who get in for free.

Or we could try busing our minorities from the "back-East" cities to Yellowstone, Grand Canyon and Yosemite, where now you almost never see a minority face, except in Yosemite, where visitors are primarily East and South Asian visitors.

The alternative is to sell them off to the likes of Ted Turner, who knows how to raise buffalo, or Walmart, which knows how to market to a broad spectrum of the Amerikan people.

Todd said...

The Crack Emcee said...
Julie C,

"Crack - correct me if I'm wrong, but you've talked in the past about wanting reparations. Isn't that money, too?

I am asking a sincere question by the way."

No, that's wanting money BACK.

Not the sick worship of it to the point of attempting to wipe others off the planet,...
10/1/14, 1:28 PM


Julie C,

Didn't you know? Crack was a millionaire and he had a mansion and a yacht. That was until the "white man" took it all away. Now he just wants it all back. He wants the return of HIS stolen efforts and he wants you and me to be the ones to write that check and pay him what he is OWED and believe you me it is a LOT!

All kidding aside, Crack can not tell you what any of us [Americans] did to him to cause us [Americans] to own him money but apparently we do. He also can't tell us [Americans] how much money we specifically own him exactly but is sure is a lot! Big check! So, just do what most of us have done which is to put a line item in the house budget and set a little aside every paycheck so that when Crack comes knocking on the door, you have it covered.

The Crack Emcee said...

furious_a,

"...sez the sleazy race hustler always pimping for his big payday."

Only whites think giving people their money back is theft, or begging, or wrong.

They think stealing and keeping other's money is right, and true, and good.

White culture is about as sick an invention as the guillotine,...

The Crack Emcee said...

Beorn,

"Because in Crack's world everything boils down to RACISM™, details and facts be damned."

Because it's The Crack Emcee who has kept whites from dealing with the subject for centuries.

"We don't even THINK about race!", remember?

That's whites dealing with it - before calling everyone they abused and ripped off and murdered "racists."

You guys are brilliant,...

The Crack Emcee said...

Hagar,

"They are handing out "reparations," and have been for some time.
The last I saw was that the cost of Pigford II is now estimated at $4.5 billion and still rising."

That's the kind of thinking that makes me happy, because it proves racist whites have NO IDEA what reparations even are:

We can't lose against such ignorance,...

The Crack Emcee said...

eric,

"Give me my money BACK!

See how less greedy that is?"

Reframing justice as greed - see? I told you, you have no practice in it:

White people are fucked UP,...

Henry said...

Althouse wrote: Why not look into the details, if it's not too much trouble?

Let the record show:

It's too much trouble.

The Crack Emcee said...

Brando,

"First, a slum isn't necessarily a "ghetto" unless a racial, ethnic or religious group is actually forced by law to live there."

If blacks moved into white neighborhoods, we were bombed (or more) by whites - that's how the black ghettos were created, idiot.

Add in government red-lining and the like, and I think you've proven my point.

I wants my money,...

Beorn said...


Crack, you are the proverbial broken clock; correct only twice a day.

The majority of the time, though, you are just spouting nonsense.

Brando said...

Crack, please keep this civil. Calling someone you disagree with an idiot only makes you look childish and unable to deal with the merits of their argument.

As for your argument, I did mention earlier that this country used to have ghettos--blacks (as well as other racial, religious and ethnic groups that you clearly don't care about) were forced to live in those neighborhoods. How many blacks today have to fear being bombed if they move into a white neighborhood? If such a thing happened it would be the subject of a federal investigation. In any event, there's no legal bar to living anywhere--only economic circumstances that affect you regardless of your race.

Government redlining? You are of course aware that redlining is illegal and has been for generations? Or am I assuming too much on your part?

I'll assume you take no exception to the rest of my previous post.

Anonymous said...

The Crack Racist wrote;

"eric,

"Give me my money BACK!

See how less greedy that is?"

Reframing justice as greed - see? I told you, you have no practice in it:

White people are fucked UP,..."

Oh, I get it. Using the word Justice makes it less greedy. Man, quit moving those goalposts!

Give me my money, because justice!

Now that's not greedy at all.

tomaig said...

TCE said:
"White Americans said "All Men Are Created Equal" and not only were the slave holders lying when they wrote it, but continued to do so until we freed ourselves over a century later..."

So the slaves freed themselves?

The Union Army didn't have anything to do with it?

Wish you would have let everyone know that you would be freeing yourselves - perhaps we could have avoided those half-a-million dead, huh?

History!! he cried...

Laura said...

Define "white." And while at it, explain "White Hispanic," "Black Irish," and "Black Dutch." Bonus points awarded for analysis of how various groups, whether ethnic or political, used these terms to gain advantage.

Disclaimer: Author of challenge issued above is partial to Robert's Rules and still trying to figure out what the definition of "is" is (and beginning to question "race" in Race to the Top), as well as a graduate of private elementary school.

The Crack Emcee said...

Todd,

"All kidding aside," I thought white people LIKED MARTIN LUTHER KING.

Actually, I know you do - until it comes to money.

Then your true racist comes out because it's based on money to begin with - which gives the whole racist game away:

You are avoiding a simple concept whites caliam to live by - the nation stole something and should give it back - but you refuse to do it because we're black.

Conservatives claim to be against the government's intrusion in our lives - except for when it's blacks being ripped off by what was a white government. Then justice is refashioned as greed, or anything else your sick little minds can "think" of.

Because whites 'Don't even THINK about race".

There's no other reason - the evidence is OVERWHELMING and you still refuse - just like your racist ancestors.

The apple doesn't fall far from the racist tree,...

Birkel said...

As the resident Native American, please allow me to throw my hat into the ring to collect on what was stolen from long-since dead people. The Crack Emcee will not recognize my righteous claims to a reasonable percentage of the land upon which your country -- the quote-unquote United States of America -- sits but I'm sure all you racist white people will give me what I never owned but which was at some point in the distant past my ancestors controlled.

Thank you in advance, racist white people.

The Crack Emcee said...

Beorn,

"Crack, you are the proverbial broken clock; correct only twice a day."

Hey - that's a better record than you racists are batting.

Reparations here we come!

Original Mike said...

"Does less cost mean better education? That is the true bottom line. The Article doesn't discuss it. (I wonder if it could even be determined)."

Although I think there is a lot of evidence that the education is better for voucher recipients, I don't think your question matters. If vouchers are not a drag on the public finances, I don't accept the morality of telling parents they don't have this option. If the parents think the education is better (and who has a better vantage point and vested interest than the parents?) I think we should allow them the choice. Hmmm, choice. Where have I heard that before?

Brando said...

"Because whites 'Don't even THINK about race"."

I can't speak for whites, but I can't imagine anyone besides Al Sharpton thinks about race as much as you do. Which is sad, really, because of all that you aren't able to think about.

Fernandinande said...

MadisonMan said...
[SO, better education for the students, and cheaper for the state.]

Cheaper, yes. But where are the metrics that the Education is better?


There aren't any metrics which show improved education, mainly because US schools are pretty good to begin with. Some schools, AKA "failing schools", just have a lot of stupid students(warning: MSM article).

Reason(.com) keeps trying to sell the "better results" point, with much hand-waving, but the only way to consistently improve the performance of a school is selective enrollment.

Anyone with a non-trivial interest should read
educationrealist.wordpress.com

Brando said...

"Reparations here we come!"

Ok, that's even sadder.

Brando said...

"So the slaves freed themselves?"

You don't remember how it went down? In 1861, Lincoln was all "don't leave the Union!" and the South was all "ok, sorry."

Then in 1862, the slaves all revolted, walked off the plantations, and told their masters where to shove it.

And that's where we are now.

tomaig said...

Laura:
I've always heard that the "Black Irish" referred to the descendants of the survivors of the sinking of the Spanish Armada who managed to swim to shore and intermingle with the (mostly) fair-haired and fair- complected Irish.

The Crack Emcee said...

Brando,

"Crack, please keep this civil."

Fine - just with you because you asked - the rest get dick:

"As for your argument, I did mention earlier that this country used to have ghettos--blacks (as well as other racial, religious and ethnic groups that you clearly don't care about) were forced to live in those neighborhoods."


Whoa - "forced"? Didn't someone just say that was a prerequisit for reparations?

The racists have GOT to start reviewing each other's notes better.

"How many blacks today have to fear being bombed if they move into a white neighborhood?"

You don't follow racist housing policies closely do you? You think it's over? Ha-hahahahaha!!!!

Man, you guys are out of the loop.

"If such a thing happened it would be the subject of a federal investigation."

Yeah, because of that evil eric Holder - damn him!

"In any event, there's no legal bar to living anywhere--only economic circumstances that affect you regardless of your race."

Sure, that's why we can have an African-American president but he can't say anything black to the whites who outnumber us 6 to 1 without getting blowtorched.

You guys are tripping HARD.

"Government redlining? You are of course aware that redlining is illegal and has been for generations?"

Does that mean it didn't happen? That blacks didn't suffer under it? For generations? That is what whites are saying:

"We don't care what we did to you - that was the past - and we'll never pay for what it's done to you or any other schemes we invented to hurt you for generations.

Whites actually came up with these schemes - from denying us the vote to housing scams - and you want to be seen as innocent still.

It's the most sick thing to behold, you'll never get from underneath it as long as you deny it.

I guarantee it - whites will always be "whites" until they come clean.

"Or am I assuming too much on your part?"

You haven't studied blacks and housing, much, have you?

"I'll assume you take no exception to the rest of my previous post."

A white man, determining his assumptions as truth. Nothing about "ASS-U-ME" like I learned in those shitty public schools. Whites went somewhere different so maybe you got another lesson:

Assumptions are golden!

Which is how whites roll,...

Todd said...

Hello everyone, my name is Todd and I am a Crackaholic. I was on a "crack free" roll there for a while and I was doing good! I was diligently skipping any post by crack and just moving on. Unfortunate, I caught the tail end of his reply to Julie C. and my resolve fell. I was weak and I posted. Am I upset? No, well maybe a little but I will endeavor to persevere! I will climb back up on that wagon! I will reset the counter to "days without engaging in Crack" to 0 (for today) and start anew. Thank you for your support and has anyone seen my sponsor?

The Crack Emcee said...

tomaig,

"So the slaves freed themselves?

The Union Army didn't have anything to do with it?"

If blacks weren't escaping slavery already - long before the Union decided to move - there would've been no war.

THAT's how fucked up whites are - like Thomas Edison's theft from blacks:

They want credit for everything we've accomplished,...

The Godfather said...

The article wasn't entirely clear about the facts, but as I understand it, it is incorrect that if "the number [of students who get the vouchers] who would have gone to public schools is greater than zero, . . . there [would be] a savings [of taxpayer money]." If you give an $8,000 voucher to a student who would otherwise have gone to public school at a cost to the taxpayers of $10,000, then indeed you've saved $2,000. But if you give the $8,000 voucher to a student who would have gone to a private school with or without the voucher, you've spent $8,000 and saved nothing.

The rationale for vouchers, charter schools, etc. is that these alternatives may improve the quality of the education our children receive, including the children who stay in the public schools -- because you provide incentives for the public schools to do better, and perhaps because the alternative schools develop innovative approaches to education that can be applied in public schools. In the longer run, you may reduce the power of the education establishment, including the unions, which may lead to more innovation and creativity.

The Crack Emcee said...

Laura,

"Define "white." And while at it, explain blah, blah, blah"

Whites opening a book is too much to ask:

Tell us what's happening black man because it's too traumatic for us to read any black book we don't agree with!

Keep that ignorance coming ("We don't even THINK about race!") because when you do:

I grin from ear-to-ear,...

Birkel said...

The Godfather:

If four of the kids who would have attended public school are offset by one who would have attended private school on their own, the cost savings are ZERO. However, it is likely true that all 5 are better off for the exchange.

Meanwhile, everybody in America regardless of race must give me back what people who are long-since dead used to control, if not own. After all, those people had babies who had babies (etc.) and eventually I was born.

Otherwise, you're all racists.

DanTheMan said...

Crack,
It's blindingly obvious why you are poor.
Hint: It's you.

The Crack Emcee said...

MARTIN LUTHER KING DIDN'T KNOW WHAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT - AND HE WAS A HATER!!!

Signed,

The non-racist white folks who know what's best for blacks,...

The Crack Emcee said...

DanTheMan,

"Crack,
It's blindingly obvious why you are poor.
Hint: It's you."


Um-hm. So explain what it was when I had money.

You know, before my white wife followed in other white's footsteps and started killing people for kicks - which is why I dropped out.

Please, I'll wait:

For your punk ass to run away - instead of ever admitting you're wrong - just like all the other internet cowards,...

Todd said...

The Godfather said...
The article wasn't entirely clear about the facts, but as I understand it, it is incorrect that if "the number [of students who get the vouchers] who would have gone to public schools is greater than zero, . . . there [would be] a savings [of taxpayer money]." If you give an $8,000 voucher to a student who would otherwise have gone to public school at a cost to the taxpayers of $10,000, then indeed you've saved $2,000. But if you give the $8,000 voucher to a student who would have gone to a private school with or without the voucher, you've spent $8,000 and saved nothing. 10/1/14, 2:17 PM


I understand what you are saying. I see the "tax savings" as icing. I see the real benefit as this parent is spending their money (property tax typically) to fund the local school and if they don't want to send their kid there, they have to fork over more (extra) money to send their kid to another school. Sorry, the money SHOULD follow the kid. If I want to send my kid to a school because I think they will teach him better or have a more interesting program or whatever, I should be able to and for whatever reason I am leaving the local school they should NOT get to keep that money. They are NOT meeting the needs of my child as I see it. Why should they be rewarded for that double? Keep the money and not have to deal with the kid.

The way the system is currently setup, that is the only real way to get any changes made. Starve ineffective schools of money so that they either improve or end. The money going to k-12 education has been increasing year after year but the results are not. Allowing parents the economic freedom to determine (better) where their kids go to school will drive positive changes in how schooling is done.

Brando said...

Crack, first thanks for returning to civility.

Second, you again assume I'm white because I disagree with you. Though my race should have nothing to do with this. Whether "ghettos" exist today in America is a topic that can be debated among people of any race. They did once exist--legal prohibitions are the reason we originally had "Little Italys" and "Chinatowns" and many of the original black neighborhoods. Poverty and unfamiliarity are the reasons most people remain in slums today, but that doesn't make them "ghettos".

But let's forget the terminology, because some people will still call slums "ghettos" for the same reason some people call blacks "negros"--they're still living in the 1960s. It's neither here nor there and it a whole other conversation.

You bring up reparations, which is a fun pipe dream but as it will never happen--even if whites wanted it to happen--keeping that hope alive for black people is sort of cruel. Instead, the question is what is holding blacks back?

Blaming white racism only gets you so far--particularly because those who blame only white racism have no real solution to that. Everything you mention--from redlining to discriminatory housing practices--are still illegal, and blacks are far more hurt by disparate impact discrimination that has to do with economics, not race. So it still gets you back to economic barriers. Prohibiting "racism" won't do a thing about that.

Leftist solutions like government ordered redistribution of wealth not only hasn't worked, it cannot work. Not only because it's failed every time it's been tried in history, but because it runs counter to every human impulse and ruins its supposed beneficiaries.

The unfortunate thing is, when anyone suggests tapping the free market or human incentives or even fundamental reform of our educational and welfare systems as a way to enable the poor--of whom blacks and other minority groups make up a disproportionate share--to climb out of poverty, these ideas are dismissed and the motives of the reformers are criticized. That is the tragedy here, because while this may win some political points, a lot of the most vulnerable people in society are suffering because of it.

You can continue to chase the windmill of "white racism" as if that's a convenient answer to allow you to avoid any of the more complicated problems, but as nothing further can ever be done about that, it leaves you right where you started--angry and raging at something you can't ever really confront.

Birkel said...

It is interesting to watch the discipline The Crack Emcee exercises while ignoring the inconvenient truth that my ancestry gives me greater claim to the wealth of America than any other ancestry. If only the commenters here had the discipline of The Crack Emcee we could rid ourselves of the odious The Crack Emcee.

Mister Mxyzptlk could not be reached for comment.

The Crack Emcee said...

Todd,

"The way the system is currently setup, that is the only real way to get any changes made."

BWAAAA-HAHAHAHAHA!!!

You need to add:

"Because whites giving blacks back their money so they can just decide what they want to do, or where they want to go, is too much to comprehend.

This is the ONLY way!

BWAAAA-HAHAHAHAHA!

White's are hilariously closed-minded to the rest of the thinking world.

"Because we don't even THINK about race,..."

The Crack Emcee said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
traditionalguy said...

The 10K cost of public school pupil compared to a 8K cost of a voucher seen as a savings is beside the point.

That missing 8K expenditure on a voucher cannot be mis-directed towards corrupt ends for political power and kick backs.

Anonymous said...

Wisconsin could save even more money by refusing to fund any schools or educational services at all. And saving money is all that really counts, isn't it? Think how low your taxes would be then.

The Crack Emcee said...

Look at berkil, begging for a black man's attention.

Big Indian Chief - another white guy, claiming an ancestry he doesn't have, speaking with forked tongue for a piece of the white man's dick.

He'll give it to you, I'm sure:

Because you're an Asshole,...

Birkel said...

Because everybody giving reds back their land so they can just decide what they want to do, or where they want to go, is too much to comprehend.

(Does editing The Crack Emcee make a difference?)

Also, quit prohibiting the private ownership of land on the reservations, you bunch of fucking communists!!

Original Mike said...

"The article wasn't entirely clear about the facts, but as I understand it, it is incorrect that if "the number [of students who get the vouchers] who would have gone to public schools is greater than zero, . . . there [would be] a savings [of taxpayer money]." If you give an $8,000 voucher to a student who would otherwise have gone to public school at a cost to the taxpayers of $10,000, then indeed you've saved $2,000. But if you give the $8,000 voucher to a student who would have gone to a private school with or without the voucher, you've spent $8,000 and saved nothing."

I stand corrected.

The Crack Emcee said...

Berkil,

I dare you to display a photo of yourself so we can see how Native American you are.

No photo - no credibility,...

Anonymous said...

When did CuriousBirkelDrago start claiming to be a Native American? A couple months ago he was bragging about being Irish/German.

Or is this one of those "My great-great-grandmother was 1/4 Cherokee" type of things?

The Crack Emcee said...

Bye, Berkil,...

Birkel said...

Everybody should see the comment The Crack Emcee makes at 2:36 pm. The racism of The Crack Emcee is apparent for all to see.

Hey, The Crack Emcee, Rashida Jones just called. She tells me that just because she doesn't "look" black doesn't mean her father is not Quincy Jones.

Tell me, racist The Crack Emcee, whether Iron Eyes Cody was a Native American. Did he "look" Native American to your eyes?

What is it with the racists and their "One Drop Rule" on this on-again, off-again basis?

If there were a higher being I would wish that higher being granted me the power to smite thee. Ignorant little bitch.

Birkel said...

madisonfella (aka Inga)

I claim nothing. I cannot claim my heritage or ancestry because it exists beyond my claims or yours.

Birkel said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Curious George said...

"madisonfella said...
Wisconsin could save even more money by refusing to fund any schools or educational services at all. And saving money is all that really counts, isn't it? Think how low your taxes would be then."

Of course. It's about lining the pockets of the unions, administrations, and teachers.

Hell, Milwaukee Public Schools just paid millions for a building for the sole purpose of denying it to a charter school, one that very successfully caters to poor blacks.

Unknown said...

Betamax does a better job than Crack.

Unknown said...

Crack says "You know, before my white wife followed in other white's footsteps and started killing people for kicks - which is why I dropped out."

You dropped out of what because your wife killed people? Did she kill black people? Were you one of the ones killed?

The Crack Emcee said...

Unknown,

"You dropped out of what because your wife killed people?"

Too late - if you missed it, then you did.

"Did she kill black people?"

Nope, or I might have had to kill her. It was close already. That might have tipped the scales.

"Were you one of the ones killed?"

Just my insides, man, just my insides,...

Fernandinande said...

From
http://thosewhocansee.blogspot.com/2014/06/victimization-whack-mole.html
with plenty of (hilarious) documentation from the "experts".

++
Victimization Whack-a-Mole

I. Education

1) 'Black kids must be with white kids'...
but
...'Black kids must be with black kids'

2) 'White teachers must teach black students'...
but
...'Black teachers must teach black students'

3) 'Force teachers to be accountable'...
but
...'Forcing teachers to be accountable is racist'

4) 'Allow [black] kids to leave failing schools'...
but
...'Don't allow [white] kids to leave failing schools'

5) [missing ??]

6) 'Imposing white standards is racist'...
but
...'Not imposing white standards is racist'

7) 'Quotas at elite colleges are good for NAMs'...
but
...'Quotas at elite colleges are bad for NAMs'
++

Rusty said...

Fernandinande said...
@2:07

So choice is a bad thing?

Fernandinande said...

Todd said...
Hello everyone, my name is Todd and I am a Crackaholic.


A Higher Power (Ann Althouse) could delete your post for you!

Anyway, take it "one post at a time", brother.

DanTheMan said...

Crack,
Some more hints:

1) You are never wrong.
2) Anybody who disagrees with you is an idiot racist.
3) Nothing is ever your fault
4) You take no responsibility for your situation
5) The world owes you. A lot.

Who would want to hire somebody like that, or work with them?

As to my punk-ness and cowardice...
See #1, above.

The Crack Emcee said...

DanTheMan,

"1) You are never wrong."

Like whites?

"2) Anybody who disagrees with you is an idiot racist."

Like whites?

"3) Nothing is ever your fault"

Like whites?

"4) You take no responsibility for your situation"

Like whites?

"5) The world owes you. A lot."

Like whites? Oh wait:

They took everybody else's and are happy with the results.

Except for all those whining niggers,...

Who would want to hire somebody like that, or work with them?

As to my punk-ness and cowardice...
See #1, above.

The Crack Emcee said...

One more:

"Who would want to hire somebody like that, or work with them?"

I've actually got lots of folks - white and black - who want to work with me. (Didn't I tell you guys there's record deal afoot?)

Your mistake is thinking we want some white man's job to make him more money.

Silly white man,...

Anonymous said...

The Crack Racist wrote;

"Um-hm. So explain what it was when I had money."

This is confusing. It seems we have two choices here.

It's you.

It's Racism.


Let's examine both.

If it's you, then the explanation is simple. Circumstances in your life changed and therefore, what you had then you don't have now.

If it's racism, that's more complicated. Why were you able to make money under racism at one point in America, but now you no longer are? Was there a no racism bubble you lived in for awhile but now it's popped?

The Crack Emcee said...

Y'all can't get slavery out of your systems to save your lives:

Or this country,...

Fernandinande said...

Rusty said...
Fernandinande said...
@2:07
So choice is a bad thing?


I never said anything remotely like that.

As far as schools, choice saves, or can save, money. The US spends more than most (all?) European countries spend per student, with very similar results.

The Crack Emcee said...

eric,

"Why were you able to make money under racism at one point in America, but now you no longer are?"

I said you're late to the game, though you claim you have it correct - with so little info you have to ask. Those stupid assumptions seem to be leading you astray in the thinking dept.

"Was there a no racism bubble you lived in for awhile but now it's popped?"

Yes - it's called money,....

tim in vermont said...

"I WANT MY MONEY" - Crack

Umm, Crack, if you have to beg for it, it's not yours.

Anonymous said...

The Crack Racist wrote;

"I said you're late to the game, though you claim you have it correct - with so little info you have to ask. Those stupid assumptions seem to be leading you astray in the thinking dept."

This doesn't address the point, it ignores it.

He said the problem is -you-

You then asked, if it's you, then what was the problem when you had money?

The same question can be asked of racism. If it's not you, but racism, then where was the racism when you had money?

I've noticed you tend to avoid a lot of these tough questions by pretending it's been answered before, or by putting links to your blog which most of us are wise enough not to click on.

So man up and answer here.

David said...

Here are the first two paragraphs of a September 29 WSJ article by Marc Bernstein, a former Superintendent of Schools for New York state.

New York recently released evaluations that rank 95% of the state's teachers as "highly effective" or "effective," 4% as "developing," and only 1% as "ineffective" for the 2012-13 school year. Never mind that more than half of the state's students in grades 4-8 weren't proficient in reading and math, according to statewide test scores.

Critics were amazed at how the state could have so many effective teachers and so many struggling students. But as a former New York state superintendent of schools for more than 20 years, I wasn't at all surprised. State law and school culture make it nearly impossible to get an honest evaluation of teachers' effectiveness.


This is not just a New York issue. The public school system is, in the main, run for the benefit of the teachers. That is more true where the teachers' unions have considerable power, but a factor nearly everywhere. In South Carolina, where I live, the unions are not a factor, but it's nevertheless very difficult to cut underperforming teachers.

Charter schools are the first credible challenge to the unaccountable power and inertia of the teachers unions and the lack of spine by administrators. The liberal left, the supposed champion of the underprivileged and the middle class, would love to stomp out this little rebellion.

The Crack Emcee said...

tim in vermont,

"Umm, Crack, if you have to beg for it, it's not yours."

Funny, but only whites can hear a "please" - or a request - in the phrase "I WANT MY MONEY!"

Maybe white skin distorts the ears, too?

I know it fucks with the mind,...

The Crack Emcee said...

Oh - and Michael Dunn is Guilty despite white claims to the contrary

Justice just isn't white's calling,..

tim in vermont said...

Now this is a knock down drag out thread. I almost wish I didn't have a life and could stay and read it before it all goes poof.

tim in vermont said...

Weapons. White people like money, yes, but we like weapons too, a lot. Powerful weapons.

The Crack Emcee said...

Didn't I tell you guys about white women?

The plantation mistresses were waaaay worse than the masters,...

Ann Althouse said...

Please ignore the troll whom I always delete.

If you respond to her, I have to delete you too.

Civilis said...

Every single white on the jury voted for a conviction. You just lost a straw man.

Don't be sad. The conviction is a good thing. Even if it means your arguments fall flat, and the white man as a whole isn't so evil as the individual white man who pulled the trigger.

(You seem to be arguing that discrimination and stereotyping are ok, so long as it's the other group getting it done unto them. Plenty of white people who want to racially profile and pigeonhole are glad to have your support. Think on it?)


The problem here is Crack is the one that insists on lumping people into groups by skin color. Read his posts. He can't see past white people's skin color (and he doesn't seem to see Asians at all).

Most people could care less about the Dunn case, and I don't see anyone saying Dunn should have gotten off. It's about as important as the Roderick Scott case or the Cleveland Murdock case. The Dunn case is important to Crack because it proves his biases are correct. The other cases don't, so they may as well not exist.

donald said...

That was some industrial grade stupid from Inga on money for schools.

Michael said...

This could have been a good discussion. Very important topic, especially for black kids.

Bobber Fleck said...

Crack Emcee said: "Didn't I tell you guys about white women?"

Cue the Blazing Saddles scene with Cleavon Little: "Hey, where the white women at?"

We need a Blazing Saddles thread to discuss racial issues, followed by a Animal House thread. How do you think Delta House would have reacted to the California affirmative consent law?

Michael said...

This could have been a good discussion. Very important topic, especially for black kids.

Darleen said...

It does appear that Crack has hijacked a thread again ... but its not hard to see why. Reasonable people believe if they act rationally, present evidence, challenge his irrational assertions something will change.

Crack is not interested. He really is a misanthrope. He cares as much for melanin-enriched people as he cares for people of pallor or any shade in between. People are tools. If Crack is actually melanin-enriched than he feels he hit the jackpot in being able to engage in outrageous behavior and still be indulged.

Believe me ... Crack's schtick is no different than the shaved-head person of pallor with AB tat on his neck & white power on his chest blaming all the Others for his and "his race's" woes & shortcomings. Whether his moniker is Crack or Peckerwood, under the skin, the lack of character is the same.

Victor Frankl said there are only two races in the world, the decent and the indecent.

Crack is a fine example of the latter.

The Godfather said...

@Birkel and @ Todd: I think we are all on the same page with respect to education.

@Original Mike: Thanks.

@everyone else who comments on this blog, a hint: If you scroll down the comments quickly, you can see what icons (is that the right word for the little pictures we use to identify ourselves?) are appearing frequently. When you see a lot of Crack's icon, you know that the comments thread has departed from the real world. We all would be a lot better off if we stopped reacting to his comments.

FullMoon said...

The only reason public schools suck is racism - who do you think put them (and the kids who attend them) in ghettos?

Wasn't a ghetto 'till blacks became majority. Blacks create the ghetto themselves.

Mike (MJB Wolf) said...

If every child deserves a publicly funded education then why not open schools up to competing for those dollars by putting the decision in the hands of parents? Do those fat fake-sick-note wielding blue fist teachers love your kids more than you do? No. But over half of them send their kids to private schools because they know how shitty the system is.

Anonymous said...

Burke could take the lead a la NYC Mayor de Blasio and use the money saved through the voucher program to build solar panels atop public schools. Such a move would also provide part-time employment for students who could shovel the snow off the solar panels after snow storms.

But maybe that last part is a bad idea because it would deny work to school district union employees.

DanTheMan said...

Darleen is 100% correct in each and every word.

"Never try to teach a pig how to sing. It wastes your time, and it annoys the pig."

RonF said...

Ann:

"Please ignore the troll whom I always delete.

If you respond to her, I have to delete you too."

My God, Ann - based on what you let Crack E. do, whoever it is that you actually delete must be bugf**k crazy.